A Young Educated British Muslimah Challenges M. A. Khan's Book
10 Mar, 2009
[Note: Italicized and bolded comments in parentheses added at the time of posting]
I'm 22; I'm a student in the UK.
I have been brought up by mslim apostates like yourselves, and I have led a very comfortable and liberal life with no major hiccups. I am popular and loved, and I have never felt regret for anything I have done as it has always been in keeping with western values. I have always considered religion to be an "opium of the people". After reading so much on the Enlightenment period and the "death of Religion", and after recognizing the true nature of these very "intelligent" and "intellectual" western theories, i began to understand quite unwillingly that this "thing" Islam that I had always hated, that all my friends and family have always hated, is the truth. Whether you like it or not. Whether you can hack it or not. One day we will all hear that trumpet.
I can see that you are worried that Islam will dominate the world, I want to ask you whether you think that there are even more dangerous forces dominating the world? Have you considered the mess Afghanistan is in, maybe you don't blame america, then blame the heroin plantations. What about Africa? Does it not matter what the colonial powers did to this continent... I know it is a very ugly time we live in, but it is also a time where the good look like the bad and the bad look like the good... If that sounds like fuzzy logic, then why do we accept freely that quarks within an atom spin simultaneously clockwise and anticlockwise? Life isn't logical from the point of view you've been trained to think. Does the role of the Jews in the world today make you wonder?...Whilst you are all being very clever and calling religion "futile", there is a very powerful population that does believe in God, and that doesn't want you to believe. Why? Are you all so much cleverer than Einstein himself, a believer in God?
Tell me, apart from Islam. what will protect us from drugs, psychological diseases, consumerism? I can tell you as a woman, that my virginity should have been protected, and all the girls I know wish the same thing. In the west, we are not given a choice but to sell ourselves and turn to alcohol. Islam is the only thing that will protect us from oppression, and the only thing that gives us dignity.
To strive to live for and worship the God of the Worlds, instead of living a selfish life. There is no money involved here, nor ego, nor fame, nor claims of intellectuality that has brought us to ruins. This century has been the bloodiest and sickest. All thanks to MODERNITY AND WESTERN ENLIGHTENMENT. contra islamic teachings. islamic finance is what will sort out this recession. postmodernist theories even turn to islam.
What exactly do you want to achieve on this earth? we are all going to die soon, we believe in black holes in space, but we don't believe in an afterlife. Anything is possible but that. Why? Do you even know what true Islam is. Do not mix up the CIVILISATION with the RELIGION... I agree the muslim world has been corrupt, but please, this farce the UN the EU THE us, is that any better in terms of corruption and mass destruction? You know what is happening in Gaza has been predicted in the torah and the quran. How can you see this 60 yr ethnic cleansing, this holocaust that is legitimized by the powers against Islam and not be disgusted. If the people of Gaza were not muslim, they would not fight how they do. If the people of Afghanistan were not muslim, they would not fight so successfully, all they have is strength in their hearts, love for Allah, hate for the Devil, and the knowledge that this life is temporal, and but a test...
Why did I write you this? Because I know that your heart is black, it is very easy, you don't know that the shaytan is ruling you. For every argument against Islam, there is the satisfying answer. Why did Muhammad marry a n 8 yr old girl?... do you know that canonical law in England until the 12th century set the age of marriage at 7????? Do you anything? Everything you have said is false and if i had time i could prove it, you can find the right answers if you look in the right place. Reverse what you have done. why should you be led by the devil. You think you are doing good, but you are harming yourselves.
ask Allah to show you the truth, even if you don’t believe right now. just say surah al fatiha. just pray one more time. If you think I am crazy and ignorant and brainwashed, then if you have nothing to fear just pray one more time, all of you and see if you think the same. Ifyou pray and you still think you are right then I would like to know, i WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED. And you can perhaps prove me wrong.
Thank you for your time, salam.
I regret that I couldn't reply sooner. It was interesting to read your ideas.
We don't believe in God that needs to be worshiped, prayed to. Indeed, there is no evidence that there exist a God at all. We definitely don't believe in praying to anything. We believe in working hard to earn a living and get favor, not by aping some useless rituals day after day, year after year.
Concerning your charge that Islam is the truth and that we are ignorant of Islam, we have left an open challenge to anyone (http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/Challenge.htm) to prove us wrong. We have promised to close this website. You are invited to take up the challenge.
Nonetheless, I have outlined all my ignorance, as you would call it, in this just-released book: Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery. I am attaching the soft-copy version of the book as a gift for your reading.
As it is filled with ignorance, as you will find, may I request you to point them out or write a criticism of it. We will be happy to publish it in our website. We will probably close the site too.
Look forward to your feedback.
Hello Mr. Khan
Thanks for getting back to me. I knew you don't believe in praying! I was just asking you to recite surah al-fatiha to yourself. It would be a good exercise because if you remember in the time of the Prophet (sws) said in the Quran that certain contemporizes of his would never convert to islam, and all they had to do to prove him wrong would be to say the shahada and he would have been proved wrong. I know right now you're cringing right?, but my point is that although I will happily read this book and take up your challenge on the website, you never took up my challenge!
I'm sure I don't have to remind you of the benefits of praying (gratitude, keeping out of trouble, ridding of the ego in line with any intellectual/spiritual path religious or not, besides the fact that it is the only point of our existence, and rightly so if u stop 2 think), you were of course muslim once before... or were you? Some of the challenges posed seem really quite basic, if you were once muslim I'm sure you'd know the islamic responses to them, unless you are completely out of the loop, i'm sure you can imagine what a muslim would say... It can't be the case that you don't think the muslims have a response to the "challenges", all the same I'll post my answer on the site... and I don't think there is a need to shut the site down, it certainly strengthened my faith to see the site existed, in fact the very rage I used to feel about Islam, was the thing that convinced me it was the truth. I certainly didn't get enraged about Christianity or Drugs or Liberal Capitalism in the same way.. As you know my e-mail was sent as duty to Allah (swt), I have to tell you what I know and think as someone who is aware of the anti-islamic mindset; your site invites this type of dialogue, so I couldn't ignore that.
I look forward to reading your book, it sounds very informative of the atrocities that have been committed... I would like to reiterate, that Islam embodied in the Quran (and possibly the Hadith) is not the same thing as the Islamic Civilisation. If Islamic civilisation, cultures or people have acted in ways not in line with Quranic teachings IN CONTEXT of the Quranic verses! Then we can't really completely academically term them "Islamic"… For that reason I think you would be better to challenge the contents of the Quran if you were really to challenge Islam, because everything outside of what is written, is between us and our maker, and no one said that any other men apart from the Prophets were the messengers of Allah (swt)... I wouldn't give men such undeserved credit, that is the beauty of knowing Islam, when you understand there is a God, only one, then yes you will have to make loads of rituals that may seem pointless, but you will never be a slave to anyone or anything else. I'd much rather my master was the creator of everything, as opposed to another man, a group of men, a system devised by men, a drug, a vice, money, sex, my ego… by the way I don't know how old you are, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with being wrong, in fact the longer time you've dedicated to being wrong, the nobler it will be if you were to admit it.
U said that you work to gain favour, but from who. Why? this is my only question to you and I better start reading!
Peace be with you.
I have prayed until my university days.
You queried: "U said that you work to gain favour, but from who. Why? this is my only question to you and I better start reading!"
I work hard to get favor mean earning a salary or wage for living a comfortable and honest life, to give my children a good education. It is as much about contributing to the human society, to the betterment of the world as well. That's part of liberal theory, which, you said, you had embraced once.
If you have any disagreements on the content of the book or you are game on the challenge and a debate, write back. Else, I may not find time to respond to your next email. I regret about that; I have to attend to too many issues. I hope, you understand.
Challenging Khan's book
First point to contest... I am a student at a top University in the UK, and my professor and many others laugh at the obscene stuff John Laffin has written. He is not respected amongst academics at all. I would not advise you to use him to gain credibility, as he has only been the subject of exemplifying exaggerated Orientalist attitudes. But that is up to you, as someone who is younger and more in touch with current theories to do with Anthropology and Cultural Studies i just thought I might tell you.
I find it curious how the chain of passing on knowledge and the production of hadith is often contested and dismissed as pretty unreliable!! I too am of this view sometimes. so why then would you tastelessly use ahadith claiming Muhammad to have an eunuch as hard core evidence? Immediately your point is degraded due to this methodology, although you could perhaps be right....
If we are talking about Islam. lets talk about the Quran. That is the definition of Islam... Hathal kitabu la rayba fii... islam is a religion, effectively a book. their is a civilisation called Islam but it is not always Islamic (adhering to the principles stated in the Quran in their correct context and interpreted by certain specific ways). If you are NOT WILLING to accept this as I have mentioned before, then indeed you are lying to yourself and everyone else to get across the point you want to get. Very subjective and highly academic.... Saying Islam has affected or caused this civilisation is a more specific argument and stance that is in keeping with your beliefs. I suggest you read up on your Foucault and Derrida to understand how this slightest play on accurate definition affects the credibility of any discourse.
Indeed you do talk about the Quran, and here I would like to say, I am sorry for you have been confused, but unless you re-edit this grotesquely inaccurate picture you have created pg 312-314, I don't know how you could be proud of your work, that in parts is indeed a farce. We don't have time in our lives to discuss this till the death but please answer me justly if what I am saying seems fair to you and if so consider re-editing, I will even find a means of funding this as it is a matter close to my heart.... The worst of crimes are ones that abuse our honour, our sexuality, even as an atheist woman I felt this very strongly, and your attack is only verbal but you have incorrectly sexualised and twisted something you should not have. And so many people will have your words imprinted in their minds, and only if they knew. Haraam on u my friend, if you do not rectify what you have perpetuated.
The sultans and their deviant sexual practices should indeed be exposed as you have done, but please, being so liberal and advanced mashallah, you should have learnt by now that a real unbiased understanding of matters is the name of the game! You have fallen into the trap of simply satisfying your ego at whatever cost...
The author of "Muhammad. leader of the world's most intolerant religion" has interpreted the ghilman of the Quran in another way. He states that the muslims stole this idea from the Zoroastrians, who as well made this analogy of little boys in paradise and pearls. The Vatican is covered in pictures of naked little boys. This imagery of paradise therefore applies to Zoroastrianism, Christianity and Islam... Are you really meaning to tell me that more than half the world has a repressed paedophillic nature expressed in their guides of morality? Why is the christian who paints these ghilman not a twisted sexual monster but the Muslim is???? Why would an otherwise completely homophobic religion insinuate such things? The insinuation my friend is in your head. The interpretation is personal. Your interpretation is reflective of your character and your mind. If the Quran wanted to say there are boys in paradise for the buggery it would have said it, why not? It bans things that otherwise available in paradise... U see, If we apply Freudian theory to everything we live in a very dark world, i could say the way you have understood it is just reflective of your own repressions projected onto The Other (Islam).... But why would we say things like that. Why do we not admit sometimes we are wrong, and we have been misinformed like you have here? Unless the world is full of paedophiles?
When I read this part of your book I cried, because I know what it means to go from darkness into light, and you have no idea, you were never a Muslim, because your stupid society was uneducated about itself, and now you help in that misguiding..
Like the child who is abused, he grows to abuse
Please consider what I have told you, the injustice in this analysis of Islam that is fundamentally racist... u also need to read up on orientalism, don't be an orientalist from the orient, they are the people who are laughed at the most
Thank you for sparing your moments reading the book, as well as your comment.
Concerning Laffin, I didn't use his writing extensively, but only made a passing mention (In the whole book, the only mention of Laffin is: "According to John Laffin, black slaves were generally castrated ‘based on the assumption that the blacks had an ungovernable sexual appetite."). Why else the black male-slaves were emasculated in such stunning numbers?
I wonder if you have from the beginning or not, most importantly Chapter III, which makes the grounding for the rest of the book.
Concerning your complaints to "re-edit this grotesquely inaccurate picture you have created pg 312-314", I am willing to discuss with you in my Website and if you can establish your case against it, I will take it out with an unqualified apology; you don't have to pay.
However, your concern about Zoroastrian precedence, I have mentioned it somewhere that it might have been prompted by Persian precedence. I have also made it crystal clear in Chapter III that Muhammad did not create any new ideas, which has been made previously by others too. He collated whatever ideas from around the reason that came to his ear or he came across. Concerning houries (celestial virgins) in heaven, he incorporates the idea from Hindu thoughts, while ghilman from Zoroastrianism etc.
You completely missed my point, or pretended to. I was accusing you of calling the Prophet a homosexual who has eunuchs, based on a hadith in which you don't even believe in, or else you would believe in all other hadiths!...
You back this way of thinking up by a verse from the quran which in this context u have presented it to have homosexual pedophilic undertones.... I have explained myself clearly, u have ignored me, and given me indirect answers.
Admit that verse in the Quran has NO SEXUAL meaning.. The one about the ghilman. That's what I wanted. I don't care if you re-edit that book or not, I would love to see in this world that people are brave enough to tell the truth though.
Please, if you want to stick to "your ideas" on this matter, that is between you and Allah, and I think I have done enough on my part, and my time would be better spent doing more charitable works.
Thanks for your time.
I did not say or indicate in any way that Muhammad had used eunuchs for homosexual engagement. I only meant that Muhammad was not averse to using castrated male-slaves, such as for domestic usage; he didn't condemn the practice for castration. A Quranic verse clearly points to its sanction. That's all was my point.
Not all male-slaves were ghilman. Muslim rulers, nobles and even qazis kept a select of the castrated young boys of great beauty as ghilman. The rest were simple slaves.
I request you to go through it again.
You have managed to evade telling the truth again. You say in black and white:
"The third reason for the high demand for eunuchs was homosexual infatuation of many Muslim rulers, generals and nobles. Eunuchs, kept for carnal indulgence, also called ghilman, used to be handsome young boys. They used to wear ‘rich and attractive uniforms and often beautified and perfumed their bodies in effeminate fashion.’ The concept of ghilman comes from the following verses of the Quran, which describes heavenly male attendants (ghilman) in paradise:
• ‘Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young male servants (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded.’ [Quran 52:24]
• ‘Th ere wait on them immortal youths, with bowls and ewers and a cup from a pure spring.’ [Quran 56:17–18]
Anwar Shaikh in his essay Islamic Morality describes ghilman as follows: ‘Paradise is the description of the luxurious surroundings dwelt in by Houris and Ghilman. Houris are the most beautiful ever-young virgins with wide, flexing eyes and swelling bosoms. Ghilman are the immortal young boys, pretty like pearls, clothed in green silk and brocade and embellished with bracelets of silver.’clxxvii
The concept of ghilman in Islam may have been prompted by the dominant culture of sodomy that existed amongst Arabs during Muhammad’s time as discussed already."
I am glad that you do not think Muhamad (pbuh) engaged in the "dominant culture of sodomy" that existed... But let us just say that you set the scene for such an interpretation, and that indeed you think the Quran which is otherwise the most homophobic text you'll find, that the concept of ghilman is sexual. You say that loud and clear, and I put it to you again.. The naked baby angels that cover the inside of the Vatican (I have been there). The stereotypical depictions of boys with their willies out that you'll find on the roof of any cathedral in fact. Is this due to a dominant fetish of sodomy amongst Christian culture? Because in my culture thank God this is Haram.
Would we say today that in Europe there exists an increasingly dominant culture of sodomy?. No one would ever say that, because it a twisted perception of current affairs.. BUT, the amount of homosexuals getting married and the amount of children getting abused by their own parents in England alone... do you know the figures? Look at them. Do you remember what happened in Abu Ghairaib? I lived in fear of these horror stories of teachers and neighbours and friends parents sexually abusing me. But we never classify this as a defining factor of our European existence. I wonder if you are so naive to do so for the islamic culture you talk about in your book... I will tell you something my friend. There is no group of humans innately better than the other. As muslims we believe only 10% of muslims will even go to heaven.
You have no authority to say:
"The concept of ghilman in Islam may have been prompted by the dominant culture of sodomy that existed amongst Arabs during Muhammad’s time as discussed already."
Say what you will, re-edit what you will. Your book is a nice compilation of fact and fiction, a tapestry, a narrative mirroring your inner thoughts and beliefs (At the end of this discussion, I would request readers to ponder over whether she has been able to establish the most contested point of her concerning this book as fiction!!). I have read many books, and books are books my friend, the 20th century, the bloodiest and most savage of them all, has seen more books than ever. Whilst the muslim intellectuals of Iraq, Palestine, Africa and Serbia are slaughtered first and foremost. The women systematically raped, the family unit broken down... Your work is emotional in the guise of academia. You hate islam, you feel a burning in your chest, your book is a release of that hate. I may have written a book like yours too. But subhanAllah, rub il alaameen, glory to God, Lord/sould/cherisher of the Worlds, I have been given another chance. I don't know where you think this is all going, but if you think the universe is a miraculous accident and your life here is answerable to nothing, and that in the year 2009 you're going to discover a truth that hasn't been discovered. Fair enough. You are obviously ignorant until the day you admit this... The Jews for 5,000 years have been saying "there is one God", we live in a skeptical and psychologically diseased age, I wouldn't seek refuge in this awful world we live in. Day by day we worsen, there is absolutely no proof that we are improving, Nuclear weapons, pollution, crime, poverty, paedophilia, homosexuality, war, rape, swearing, hatred, anger, depression, drugs, genetic engineering, divorce, madness.... all these things are increasing, and never decreasing.
An infidel is someone who "conceals" the truth. By the very fact you are not muslim, you conceal the truth that you were born muslim like everyone else.
Insha'allah things will change, and you will use your efforts for good, you are a good writer and you have amazing things to say, your book in fact is in parts a testimony to the truth of Islam, the wrongdoers must always be exposed! Good luck in your life. I feel you have become like a friend and I appreciate your attendance to my e-mails. (take note of this and notice below how a friend quickly turn Abd-al-Shaitan (slave of satan).
Peace be with you.
Thank you for your comment.
My anticipation that "The concept of ghilman in Islam may have been prompted by the dominant culture of sodomy that existed amongst Arabs during Muhammad’s time as discussed already" is actually linked to earlier discussion in pages 174–176. I am sorry to confuse you. I should've entered the page numbers in this sentence.
I, however, affirm that there is no compelling evidence that Muhammad had overtly engaged in sodomy unlike his indulgence his polygamy, slave-concubinage, incest (with daughter in law) and pedophilia. Nonetheless, we come across some references in Islamic literature suggesting that Muhammad, too, was not probably free from sodomy: Anal Sex Approved by Allah and Prophet Muhammad.
Peace, this is a never ending discussion!
I think I told you that Muslims define Islam completely by one literature- that of the Quran, and sunnah - (which is not the word from God like the Quran though), so I think it's unfair of you to call this filth "Islamic Literature"... It is homosexuality under the guise of Islam... You should know in Islam you can kill people for being homosexual... SO HOW CAN THE 2 THINGS EXIST AT ONCE?? is islam for or against gays?
1) Does the Quran or a book written by a homosexual define more the character of Islam? Why should we look to anything else if we want to slander muslims?
2) Again I've said this to you before. PUBERTY IS A SOCIAL CONCEPT THAT CHANGES WITH SOCIETY... up til the 12th century, under ENGLISH canonical law, marriage to a girl of 7 yrs of age was legal... Muhammad pbuh actually improved the international situation. Check out the facts of English Law in this link if you don't believe me.
Muhammad pbuh was not a pedophile. For full understanding, watch this documentary fully referenced.
Ok listen, I just went on your site to read that, and I think that really you are quite sick, I'm sorry, but you have got way too much time on your hands, because you're defending a heartless pointless world with no hereafter and no fixed moral guide lines. like I said, any culture can be described as homosexual the way you analyze it. But subhan ALLAH not one letter in the noble Quran defends these lies. I think it is better you do not write to me anymore, I am very uninterested now because I see from ur responses that you are not concerned with the truth. Please do not write to me, because i find your comments debased and disturbing that someone would go out of there way to do what you have done. thanks but no thanks, I’m young and carefree and muslim (to Allah, she should not be carefree but restrained and well-veiled, lest become become violated: "wives and daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed” [Q 33:59]) and happy and i don't want to hear your dark thoughts anymore. sorry.
Dear Abdalshaytaan (slave of satan)
AND ALLAH KNOWS BEST
I was not saying that Quranic laws should change with society. I agree with whatever is said in the Quran even if at first i do not agree, i am still learning, and I never said I was a good muslim. I was just informing you of something a lot of people do not know, the facts about puberty and marriage consent in the past. Like I told you, the hatred harboured in the heart of the non-believers, the one's who Allah makes blind, deaf and dumb, is the driving force behind which the truth is distorted in their vision, thoughts and speech. Did you ever consider you were brain washed. You don't believe in Allah, but what about the shaytaan. I suppose you believe in him even less! lol. Do you know that he is your god, and that he will never present himself to you in the form of a bearded horned red-devil! He is CUNNING, and you are his slave, and he will never protect you, you are not protected. You have gotten away with a lot, but do you think you will get away? Do you enjoy this life? Are you truly contented and happy? I can tell you are troubled. What a shame that someone so troubled, and perhaps living in hiding even! believes so much in this world. If I were you, I would enjoy yourself to the max! Because you definitely seem like you are depressed.... I say that because I told you not to e-mail me back! Islam teaches me peace, and I should not unnecessarily expose myself to darkness, or talk much to infidels.
Our discussion is over, because it is not a game, I was doing my part by defending my religion and educating someone who is publicly defending his religion, even though he doesn't know he has one!
You may not believe in the Quran, but how about the reality of biological evidence?
A girl can sometimes get her period at the age of 7 or 8. After this period she is ready to give birth, and marriage and sex come before this subhanAllah. I am a woman, and you are not. You have no right to assume a 7 year old girl today, if she had her period, would not want to marry or sleep with a man. Human beings masturbate as young as 2, so when they have their periods they are ready and willing to have sex, as long as CONSENT FROM THE GIRL AND PARENTS IS GIVEN and as long as it is within the institution of MARRIAGE (I thought Muhammad, the most perfect man ever came to set ideal example to be practised for eternity. Nonetheless, I ask Sarah's age father, like Muhammad, to have sex with a 7-8 year-old matured woman. She should know where her father would end up. Of course, he would get away with in Arabia, where Muhammad had sanctified such practice for eternity 14 centuries ago). I'm sure you have evidence where this has not happened or where "islamic" literature has defended it, or hadiths about supposed misconduct of the prophet, but I am not interested anymore. If you want to discuss things face to face I would meet you, typing is boring and I can't get my personality across to you, you would feel very small and ignorant in front of me even though I am only 23 yrs old (Muhammad was the greatest narcissist, says Ali Sina, which becomes clear from the reading of the Quran and Sunnah. A Muslim, following Muhammad, can not be but be a narcissist. Sarah is an ideal example in her own words) and a typical southern English girl!
I know for security reasons that would never happen, so please don't write back to me coz I'm not going to read your e-mail this time, I understand where you're coming from and I should not have e-mailed at all, coz Allah says not to worry about the disbelievers, but I thought maybe I could give you something you never had, but now I get it that you are how you are because maktub.
And Allah knows best. Allahu akbar. (This is the slogan scare me most: Muhammad used utter it before doing his starting his raids and wars and doing slaughter of the innocent people in Arabia).
(I have apologized to Sarah for emailing to her, although she initiated this exchange and I thought it was her responsibility to stop, not me... MA Khan)
Article has been slightly edited upon request from Sarah as she feel this conversation may endanger her life.
MA Khan is the editor of islam-watch.org and the author of Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery.
|Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery -- by MA Khan|
Also available at your nearby bookstores. Look for cheaper offers on print editions at Barnes & Noble etc.
your book and found it fascinating. It is one of those few books
which everybody, Muslims and non-Muslims, must read."
"With this book, M A Khan joins the ranks of luminaries like Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Bat Yeor and Geert Wilders". -- Objective Reader, Amazon.com