Dialogue with a Potential Irani Apostate
06 Dec, 2008
- Sub: I am very much confused
I don’t know why I am sending this mail. I am Muslim to but I am very much confused .... after reading these articles. I don’t know what the truth is and how to dig it. Can you guide me...
Bye and take care.
Which article are you talking about? We guarantee that we tell
the truth here. We advise you to study the Quran, hadith and
Prophet's biographies. That will be sufficient for you to understand
Islam. You will know why the butchery of innocent people is taking
place in Mumbai.
Who are you? Are you Muslim? Your name is MA Khan.
It's really embarrassing to see people dying out there in the name of personalities to whom, I respect most. There are many other problem we are having in our society, like poverty, peoples are not having food to eat, pauper orphans not having cloths and food. Can't we think about them… Doing something nice with this world can also put our religion in light?
I am Iranee (Parshian). I have been thinking my forefathers had accepted such a great religion. But now every thing is changed.
Ok bye. I have to go.
I was born to a Muslim family and lived nearly 35 years as a believing Muslim. So I have an Arabic name, which has nothing to do Islam. Arabic was not invented by Muhammad, Allah or Islam. It was language of the pagan.
Those of us, who run this site, are former Muslims. We are now
atheists, freethinkers, humanists. We understand that all religions
were created by some cunning men; others, such as Hinduism, grew as
a civilizational culture.
We have the same concern as you: live a good human life, try to
do good to others, definitely not harm. Islam, unfortunately, sees
all non-Muslims, especially Hindus/idolaters as mortal enemy. Quran
9:5 commands Muslims to kill such people wherever found. On the
basis of such commands of the Quran, Prophet Muhammad had wiped out
all the idolatrous people of Arabia giving them a choice between
Islam and death. To be noted that those idolaters of Arabia,
including Muhammad's Quraysh tribesmen were very tolerant and
nonviolent people. Read sira of the prophet to find it out.
I have always held the Persian in a very high esteem; they were a
very worthy people; they had established a great civilization prior
to Islam. Islam's success later was by absorbing the high
achievements of the Persians. It is after the Abbasids [whose
mothers were high-status Persian women (slaves)] embraced Persian
culture and civilization that Islam threw away many Islamic-Arab
scruples and embraced progressive ideas that made Islamic
civilization a successful one.
Nonetheless, Persians did not happily embrace Islam; it was brutally imposed on them. Do you know that tens of thousands of Persians (Zoroastrians) fled to India to save their life, where they found welcome from Hindus. But there too, those Persian (Persis) could not live in peace. Islamic invaders later on came there too and persecuted them over the centuries. In 1079, Sultan Ibrahim Ghaznavi attacked Punjab where there had developed a Persian colony from those who had fled Muslim persecution in Persia. After doing a great slaughter, Sultan Ibrahim drove away 100,000 Persis as slaves to Ghazni. Generally, the slaves were forcibly converted to Islam and sold.
Islam almost obliterated Zoroastrians from Iran, but a few
hundred thousand of them still survive in India. Muslims are
desperately poor in India. But the community of Persis in India are
rich and influential and, most of all, very peaceful.
They were more advanced than the Arabs in the 7th century; given
equal opportunity, they still excel over those who embraced
Muhammad's Arab cult.
I believe it would hurt you. I used to feel hurt in similar way
when 6-7 years ago, when I stumbled into such websites. But after I
read the Quran & Muhammad's biography, I was shocked to discover so
much cruelty in Islam. I left it immediately. We advise, all Muslims
to read the Quran, Sira and Sunnah to know Islam.
As you told you are atheists, freethinkers and humanists… it’s ok… the question is, how you are surviving without community? As man is a social animal, it is impossible for him to live without community. What about your family? Are you married?
I also believe in freethinking; a man should be given right to
think. "To think differently" is the reason behind development of
mankind. Humanity is the first religion one should follow.
I am well aware of merciless killing of thousands of Parsshians by Muslim intruders. Then what is the roll of Mr. Ali in all this matter why shia (point is shia are Iranis) respect him so much.
It's a tough life for former Muslims; worse if he/she becomes a freethinker atheist. Personally for me, I live in a liberal society. Here, they do not bother much about whether you are Muslim or non-Muslim, religious or nonreligious. I do not feel that pressure which I would face in my home country, an Islamic one.
Of course, it comes with a good deal of sacrifice. I have lost
many of the old Muslim friends. I have made some new ones too who
would not mind my position on religion. They are mostly from other
religious backgrounds. This helps me too. I interact with people of
diverse faiths, try to understand their ideas on life; it enriches
me: helps me improve as a human being, widens my understanding of
the global human society.
I have also connected with ex-Muslim freethinkers all over the
world. Modern technologies, cheap communication facilities allow us
keep in touch like a family.
Most of all, I have support of my beloved wife. I have confidence of my family: some of whom have left Islam quietly after discussions with me. A couple of my best friends also have left Islam because of my influence. Of course, it's not the same simple a life; I don't tell everybody of my change in faith; I have to watch my words all the time. Still, living a free life (internally sometimes)—which we all deserve as we are born free—is worth whatever sacrifice comes with it. It gives me satisfaction that my sacrifice will hopefully give my children and grandchildren a life of freedom and liberty. Giving my best shot toward ensuring a life they deserve as free-spirited humans is immensely satisfying.
Regarding your question of Iranian infatuation with Ali, I am not
best aware of the religious aspects of the Iranian-Islamic history.
You should probably inquire with Dr Ali Sina, the editor of
faithfreedom.org, who is a brilliant Iranian scholar and ex-Muslim.
Let me still make a few comments on this query. The most
incredible thing about Islam is that it instills in believers an
absolute sense of Arab-Islamic cultural and religious supremacy.
Once embraced Islam, they are willing to forgo their own cultural
and civilizational values and heritage at any cost for substituting
them with the Arab-Islamic culture and values. You can surely see it
in your own country (Iran) now ongoing. At the time of Islam's
birth, Iran was at the top of the world's civilizations while Arabia
was one of the least developed, a primitive society. You can see how
eager are the Mullahs to obliterate any traces of pre-Islamic
Persian civilizational heritage that survive in Iran today. If my
info is correct, the Mullahs are trying to demolish the monuments of
Cyrus the Great, a great humane monarch of his time.
And this has happened to every people. You saw it in Mumbia the
other day. Like in Iran, Islamic invaders imposed Islam on the
Indians in the most cruel manner. It is estimated that Islamic
invaders and rulers killed 60 to 80 million Indians. Now you can see
that the offspring of those, on him Islam was imposed most brutally,
are killing those Indian, whose forefathers resisted foreign Muslim
invaders at great personal sacrifice. The implants—Indian in flesh,
blood and gene—left by the Arab invaders are continuing the
unfinished job of the failed Arabs of yore. I believe you are aware
of how the few remaining Zoroastrians and Jews with older roots than
Muslims in Iran suffer under the Mullahs. It's happening everywhere.
Look at the Copts in Egypt.
Let me now make a guess on Iranian's love for Ali. My reading of Iranian history informs me that there was strong resentment among Persians against the Arabs from the earliest time. At the same time, it also had become a reality of life for the Iranians that they could not get rid of them. And accepting Islam to get privileged position and, at the same time, hating the tent-dwelling desert Arabs became a general trend amongst Persians. Until the ninth century or beyond, the Persian, whilst proudly calling themselves Muslim, disparaged the Arabs (who gave them Islam) calling them desert-squatters, tent-dwellers, lizard-eaters, sodomite barbarians, who had no achievements of their own and who learned manners from Persians.
Under this circumstance, embracing the party of Ali becomes quite relevant. Because it was Caliph Omar who brutally smashed the great Persian civilization and brought it down to the feet of Islamic Bedouin Arabs, he was hated intensely by the Iranians from the beginning; this hate continues to this day. You must be more aware of it than me, I believe. Abu lulu Firuzan, a Persian, killed Caliph Omar; he is seen as hero by many Iranians even today.
The thing is that, when there was an intense hate against the
Arabs, particularly against Omar, and at the same time, getting of
them, Islam in particular, was impossible—embracing
the opponent party of Omar, i.e., Ali's Party, became a natural and,
probably, the only option for the Persians to vent their anger. Ali,
who opposed Omar, became a hero for the Iranians; he became the
savior, the messiah, of the Iranian people.
This is my understanding of Ali's popularity amongst Iranians.
This, I believe, is partly if not wholly true. Yet, this is entirely
a guess from my reading of Persian-Islamic history. Since, no
history book will tell us the reason; making "educated guess" is the
only way to make sense of such big questions. I can be entirely
I believe you will get a more convincing answer from Dr. Ali Sina,
whom I respect greatly; he was instrumental in my embracing
rationalism and freethinking.
That's nice you are in liberal environment. I am Indian, living in chauvinistic society. Here peoples are prejudiced; they don't want to see truth beyond there believes (Religion). I am having very well experience of Islamic society, they just keep dominating us because we are Iranies specially peoples belonging to higher cast like Syed, Khan etc refuse to marry girls from our community.
I am 24 and I am engineer as come in contacts with non Muslim society, it’s completely different. World is changing technologies are evaluating vary rapidly and this malicious Islam is destroying everything. I also want to walk away and some day I will.
Thanks for bringing some points in light. Please keep in touch with me..
Bye and take care.