Debate: Muhammed's Challenge to Revert MA Khan to Islam Again
01 Mar, 2009
A few months ago, Muhammed Abdullah from the U.K. sent us an email calling us ignorant and accusing Islam-watch of blatantly lying about Islam.
In response, I reiterated our mission statement of “Telling the Truth about Islam” and challenged to prove even 5% of our materials wrong. If so, I promise to return to Islam and close the site.
He gave me an impression that it’s a cinch to prove us wrong. He took up the challenge saying, “First I hope this will return you to Islam, I really do. May Allah guide you”, adding that “I only have to disprove 5% right? You have so much hate and bigotism that you've easily got 5% lying around. Insha'allah I shall expose it and it will be the rope that hangs you.”
He however also expressed apprehension about keeping our promise saying, “Secondly you're fueled by this hatred; so you're gonna obviously just say, you're own view twenty times over until I give up. This won't happen, unless I die.”
To start the debate, Muhammed picked the article, Can Muslims Watch Porn, Do Sex with Toys & Do Masturbation?, which, I must agree, is probably the weakest link in our whole content.
I have said in
this article that “There is nothing in Islam that says that you
cannot watch porn or do sex with toys… Just fantasize it as a
infidel woman, with whom you are allowed to do sex any way you want…
I do not see any reason that you should not be able to do
Muhammed made a compelling case to prove this article wrong by citing the following verse:
“Surely God enjoins justice, kindness and the doing of good, to kith and kin; and He forbids all that is shameful, indecent, evil, rebellious and oppressive." [InnaAllah Yamuru bil adel, wal ehsane, wa itae zil qurba; wa yanha anil fuhshae, wal munkari walbaghi; yaizukhum lallakum tazakkaroon.] (Quran 16:90)
On the basis of this verse, he adds:
Pornography and the culture of
pornography has all the three elements which God has prohibited in
the above verse of the Quran: Fuhsha; Munkar, baghi. Here is a bit
of terminology before we review the rest of the evidence prohibiting
No man or woman should look at the naked body of each other (unless married). Sahih Muslim
By God, I would prefer to be thrown from the skies and spatterred in parts than to look at someone's private parts or let someone look at my private parts. Narrated by Salman. Almabsooth kitabul istehsan.
Don't expose your thigh to anyone and don't look at the thigh of any person even if s/he is dead. Narrated Ali ibn abi Talib. Ibn e Maja, Abi Dawud, Darqutani. Tafseer Kabeer (Doesn't this prove you can't look at private parts NO MATTER WHAT? 'even if dead', making movies forbidden.)
- Below is my response:
Thank you for initiating this debate. I didn't make any serious conclusion on this topic from the Islamic scriptural point of view. I have tried to make two major assertions in this essay:
First, Islam allows, indeed commands, Muslims to capture kafir women by waging aggressive wars and to keep them as sex-slaves, rape them. I opined that watching pornography, doing masturbation etc. to ease sexual urge than engaging in bloody attacks on kafirs and taking their women as booty for satiating sexual urge as had been a tradition from Muhammad's time to the present day.
Second, I also asserted that watching porn, masturbation and homosexual relations are widespread amongst Muslims as well.
These are the points I can contest with you, if you are willing.
Of the rest, I have conceded that some verses have been interpreted as prohibitory to porn, masturbation and homosexuality; I mentioned one of them. You also mention some and there are more. There is, however, no direct prohibition.
Concerning condemnation of “shameful and indecent” acts in your quoted verse 16:90, how do you define what is “shameful and indecent” and what is not?
Sexual act between legally married couple is indecent when done in public view, not when in private quarters.
Scolding your son in the midst of a public gathering would amount to an indecent act; scolding of a father by his son would be a greater indecent act. If the same is done in the confines of home, no body would know; it won’t constitute an indecent act.
Attacking a people, plundering their wealth and enslaving their women-folk to rape them, keeping as sex-slaves, would not only be “shameful and indecent”, it will be barbarically “shameful and indecent” in a civilized society. But it is divinely sanctioned by Allah, engaged in by Prophet Muhammad and perpetuated by Muslims until the present time. Sudan’s Sharia-based government-sponsored Jihadi Islamic militia have enslaved tens of thousands in Darfur; thousands of women have been reduced to sex-slaves over the last few years.
If a woman walks alone in the street of Riyadh, Jeddah or Cairo alone at midnight, it will be so indecent to Muslims that, her indecency will sexually arouse them so badly that, the woman will undoubtedly be raped to teach her some decency. But in Papua New Guinea, in some African countries, in Andaman Island, in many Amazon communities, women walk around virtually naked. They don’t find it indecent, neither the men rape them. In civilized conscience, letting one’s unethical, criminal urge for rape loose—roused by whatsoever it may—is indecency, not how one like to live, dress in a society.
Numerous such examples can be given. To cut it short, when one engages in homosexual act, also common amongst Muslims, in the confines of their quarters, is not indecent; watching porn in the privacy of one’s home is not indecent; masturbation in privacy is not indecent, but when done in public view, they are, as is sex between legally married couple in public view.
Now if you want to contest my two major assertions mentioned above, let’s begin. If not, I would suggest that we pick those articles that are seriously Islamic theological content based. I may propose to start with Mr. Abul Kasem’s works below:
I look forward to a debate, which, it seems, would be a very good one. I also request you to try to cite appropriate references from the Koran, Sahi Hadith collections, original biographies of the Prophet (Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Sa’d, Al-Tabari)—the classical literatures of Islam, so that I can cross check them. References from outside these sources are hard to trust.
A month later Muhammed returned to say:
Sorry i've been unavailable for so long. Unfortunately this will continue but insha'allah not for too long. No doubt you've already declared victory for yourself sadly, well no, not sadly but yeh your rebuttal is totally full of holes.
I hope we can pick up where we left off in a short while.
More than a month has passed since he sent me the above note. I have given him a reminder about the pending debate here five days ago. I’m still waiting and looking forward to a fruitful debate with this undoubtedly knowledgeable gentleman.
MA Khan is the editor of islam-watch.org and the author of Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery.
|Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery -- by MA Khan|
your book and found it fascinating. It is one of those few books
which everybody, Muslims and non-Muslims, must read."
I had the good fortune of reading this magnum opus... This is a "must read book" for all. The author (M. A. Khan) and Dr. Ali Sina are like two barrel-guns against the threat of Jihad, the world faces." ---Nausheen Najib Rehman (translator, ongoing)